From BBC to Newlane: How Dom Cotton Built What Everyone Said Was Impossible

Chris Whyte (: 00:00

Dom, welcome to Y Design. Thank you for being on the show.

Dom Cotton (: 00:04

Pleasure to be here, looking forward to it.

Chris Whyte (: 00:06

Yeah, likewise. It's been so we've spoken a couple of times now. We we met up at Eurobike as well a few weeks ago. So it's great to see you after that. So I'm to do my best to give you a little intro now and we'll kind of dive into some of the topics and then we'll just get into it shortly. So. So, Dom, your co-founder and CEO of New Lane, a London based startup creating sustainable, packable helmets for the urban mobility space. You've had a really varied career.

it's safe to say from presenting sports on the BBC to leading national campaigns for social change and now building a hardware business from scratch. So today we're going to explore your journey into design and product development, dig into the mission behind ULANE and the challenges of launching safety critical consumer tech when you're not from a traditional hardware background. So yeah, how was that for that's you.

Dom Cotton (: 00:57

me. lovely summary of my wiggly career, my career that's gone all over the place. I've got friends on the BBC who still don't understand how or why I'm making a bike helmet and I think I can empathise or sympathise with their confusion. But yeah, that summarises where I've gone so far, definitely.

Chris Whyte (: 01:14

Awesome. Well, in terms of the kind of things we're to dive into, we'll talk a little bit about Eurobike, but we'll get into your journey as well. Your weekly journey, as you say, you know, from transitioning from media and communications into physical product development and innovation. The seven year journey behind New Lanes foldable helmet. What it takes to bring a hardware product to market when you don't have a design background. The challenge of standing out in a crowded micro mobility market.

And so we're learnings from start from startup space, from compliance to manufacturing, partnerships and fundraising. We're going to dive into storytelling, persistence and communication, why they matter in early stage hardware. And then yeah, just to end, try and weave in some advice for anyone trying to enter the market that is maybe kind of not from a designer engineering background, maybe inspire some of your ex BBC colleagues. But we'll, we'll,

Dom Cotton (: 02:10

Just saying, just saying.

Chris Whyte (: 02:12

Just dive in then. So I usually ask at this stage, you know, why design? But it's not your usual start in design really, is it kind of with yourself kind of starting in journalism and spending over a decade at BBC? You know, what pulled you into physical product development?

Dom Cotton (: 02:31

That's a really good question. And I don't think I could say I was pulled into physical product development as such. I was pulled into the idea of the product. Josh, my co-founder and I were working on another business and he nearly had an accident while riding a hire bike and was coming to meet me just after that incident. And I was riding a regular bike with a rucksack on my back as many people do. And I had a helmet dangling off the back of it again, as many people do. So his...

point was we can solve the problem that he had just encountered by being on a Santander bike in central London and feeling a bit spooked by the experience and couldn't fit my helmet into my bag like lots of people. So he basically said, can we create a product which will solve both the problem he's encountered and my problem? So I was like, I think the truth is it must be true that at that point in my career, I was looking for something to something new to do. And

I think it's also safe to say that I have a growth mindset, open mind, whatever you want to call it, because at that point having no product experience, I still believe that we could do it. I think if I had known then what I know now, I might have made a different decision. But you know, in many ways, and this isn't just products, this is true of all kinds of innovation startup, whatever you're...

call it is if you are open to the possibilities rather than closed. you'll have a novices mindset rather than an expert mindset, the parameters aren't there because you simply don't know. I mean, I would add on to that. I've been a sort of journalist and communicator or in communications for most of my work in life. have absolutely adored and loved learning about the physical product process. I mean, I've learned from zero.

But it makes me conscious of fact that every single thing around us, you know, is made. know, that the physical products have to be produced in some way, shape or form to exist. And I think it struck me very quite quickly how few people know about the manufacturing, the design and manufacturing process. So I arrived as an absolute novice and

Dom Cotton (: 04:45

you know, even through the trials and tribulations of fundraising and paying my bills and all the rest of it. I love the hard process of part of our product is produced by a large piece of steel and all this, the kind of mechanics of it. I'm certainly not, even after seven years, kind of engineer as such, but I work with people who are. And within our small business, I am the lead internally anyway, on the engineering manufacturing side of things.

And I think my dad was a scientist, he's got a PhD in chemistry. And I used to wonder where that particular gene had gone, because my brother's a musician and I've been in communication, you know, like, what did that go? But I think it appears that there is a bit of that in me. I'm a long way from being an engineer, design engineer, or even a designer, but there are things about the process that really appeal to me and I have more of that than I'm aware of.

Yeah, a long way from journalism, a long way from communications, fundraising and all that for the charities that I work for. quite quickly I realised it was something that floated my boat. But, you know, what we have chosen to do, the challenge we sought to overcome has been, I think, especially tough. know, a variation on a safety-critical and a safety-certified product is pretty hard. And that's why it took us so long to get to market.

Chris Whyte (: 06:10

Yeah, especially if you like say you're starting from zero and you're having to upskill every day and ask questions. But I'm guessing your background is quite helpful in that respect. know, be the journalist asking questions, being curious, fact finding, going out and research, you know, they're all skills that transfer quite nicely.

Dom Cotton (: 06:27

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think you're right. Fair, fair, fair point. There's more about what I've done that is relevant. But, you know, there was an awful lot to learn. But I guess my view is that learning is what life's all about. mean, at the end, it sounds a bit cheesy, but I think that's definitely kept me going. I've enjoyed the learning. So long as I know that I can pay the bills, the learning is really has been the most exciting thing.

Chris Whyte (: 06:54

Absolutely. that's great. And yeah, just looking at you kind of your career to date and where you've been, where you've been involved in and where you're going. You showed me a preview of the advert that you've got going live soon before we started recording. It's clear to me actually the position you're in now as well, not only are you learning about product development, but that storytelling kind of skill set, that communication skill set.

that you've built up over the years. That's going to be really helpful when it comes to launching a product because no good having a great product if no one knows about it and if you can't communicate the features and benefits.

Dom Cotton (: 07:29

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 07:35

Yeah, absolutely. Josh, my co-founder, a kind of has become in the same way that I've become a product specialist, he's become a marketing or digital marketing specialist. And together we can tell a good story. you know, that's it is absolutely essential. And I think the other thing that has kept us sane and kept us going is that, you know, the micro mobility sort of tailwinds are very strong.

So the cycling sector may have encountered lots of really significant challenges post-COVID for reasons that probably we don't need to go into, but a lot of people have struggled in the cycling sector. But all the while we've been toiling away trying to turn an idea into a real thing and then get it certified and start selling it. The wins

behind micromobility and for those listening or watching who don't know what that is it's bike scooters and e-bikes essentially and how they are becoming a much more common site in towns and cities around the world so we've always had that in the back of our heads our product is designed specifically for people who get on a bike e-bike or a scooter to go from a to b in a town or city there are many many i mean there are tens of millions of people who are choosing to do that now

Chris Whyte (: 08:45

Hmm.

Dom Cotton (: 08:55

from here to Australia and back and our product plays to that market. So it's really helped us to feel like we're making a decision, which is a tough one, but it's a good decision if we get there and we have. And we've already proved we've only been in the market for seven or eight months, but it's already quite clear that our hunch that this is a product that there are a very healthy number of consumers for, you know, for. It's true. It's proving to be true. Now, not everyone thinks it's...

Chris Whyte (: 09:19

Mm.

Dom Cotton (: 09:24

perfect product but a lot of people think it's absolutely ideal for their needs.

Chris Whyte (: 09:28

Absolutely. Yeah. And you don't need to be the perfect product to everyone. You need to be the perfect product to a few people, you know, enough of the market and having that there is competition, but that's, that's healthy. Cause it keeps you on your toes, keeps you innovating, you know.

Dom Cotton (: 09:36

Yeah. Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 09:43

Yeah, yeah. I the market, I guess the truth is, Chris, on that, the market into which we are going is growing and growing exponentially. 17.5 % is the compound annual growth rate projection by all the big and analysis of this stuff, the Lloyds and the McKinsey's of the world. They all go, by the way, globally, micro mobility is going gangbusters and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it, nor should they. But what, and our view is that that's good. We have created a product which is

Chris Whyte (: 09:55

Mm.

Dom Cotton (: 10:10

is about convenience and keeping you safe. that is why we've managed to keep going, why we've managed to gather best part of 2 million pounds of investment to get the product into the market.

Chris Whyte (: 10:14

Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Whyte (: 10:27

fantastic yeah and you sold what was it over 5,000 units yeah

Dom Cotton (: 10:31

We're approaching 5000 now, have two more orders, two more lots of helmets ordered. So parts of it come from China. Most of it is made and injection molded in the West Midlands in Birmingham with a company called Cameron Price. So we have another 6400 on order and we will go.

and sell all of those hopefully by the end of the year and introduce product range in a variations and the kind of thing we're working with company many people who ride a bike will know of called MIPS multi directional impact protection system which has a little yellow dot for those who are watching is a little yellow dot and it will become the first folding product of any kind to integrate their system which is a pretty significant differentiator for us so

Chris Whyte (: 11:00

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 11:20

Yeah, they've got pretty high standards, haven't they? Or requirements for companies to use their products. Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 11:27

Yeah, yeah, they're very clever. They're a good business and they've created a great business model, is, you know, making making them, you know, a very successful organization.

Chris Whyte (: 11:36

Fantastic. Well, let's talk about Eurobike things. we caught up whilst we both in Frankfurt. And we're just saying before started recording, you know, I went to leaders night on the Tuesday, they talked about kind of the state of the industry and, know, your research kind of aligns with what they were saying as well, you know, the boss says a lot of doom and gloom from the kind of

Dom Cotton (: 11:44

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 12:05

the investment piece, actually the amount of riders, people choosing to ride bikes or scooters, you know, every day is increasing. and that's set to just carry on increasing. So there's a, there's a big opportunity there. it's just, it's a bit harder to come by from a, investment from a capital point of view. but I think, yeah, what you're saying about the micro ability piece as well, they kind of, they were talking about splitting off into

lobby futures. So it's all about micro mobility, and then having Euro bikes are separate. So I think there's definitely a play there to feed into that, or to attract more into that space. So it'd quite interesting to see how that pans out next year. But yeah, we were talking as well about, you know, the lack of innovation. That's certainly my sense when walking around the stands this year is that there's much of the same and really when you think about, you know, bike frames and

Dom Cotton (: 12:37

you

Dom Cotton (: 12:49

Definitely.

Dom Cotton (: 13:01

Mm.

Chris Whyte (: 13:04

traditional bike running. There isn't a lot of true innovation going on.

Dom Cotton (: 13:07

That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, I'd agree. Yeah, I mean, I think my observation is that I'm not kind of thing I'm a newbie anymore. But I mean, certainly going to big trade shows, some people have been going for decades and they're a very established way of doing things.

I walked and talked with many people, had lots of meetings set up with all kinds of businesses, big and small, and it did strike me that this notion around innovation and everyone wants to be able to say they're innovators because why wouldn't you? Because it sounds good and it's, you know, all that. It's that there are a lot of businesses and it does make sense in many ways for businesses that are still licking their wounds after the kind of misery of Covid and again for those who aren't necessarily aware of this what happened in and around Covid for the cycling industry was

Chris Whyte (: 13:34

Hmm.

Dom Cotton (: 13:52

a lot of purveyors of cycling products, they suppliers, manufacturers or retailers, all overstocked because during COVID everyone wanted a bike, everyone was riding bikes because they had to. I'm really talking predominantly about Europe, it probably applies to North America and the Far East as well, but if talk about Europe.

you know, kind of to start with. And then what happened is the supply chains were slow during COVID. So these guys ordered more and then they overstopped, COVID ended and no one wanted bike stuff anymore because they'd already bought it. So there was some kind of...

dare I say it, short-sightedness on the part of some of the suppliers, manufacturers and retailers. And that has meant that you go into a bike shop as we have done since COVID with a new product. And people are like, that's cool, that's interesting, but we're not taking any chances at the moment, so no thanks. Which is understandable. Again, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. So there's the kind of taking a chance innovation that a retailer might have, there's the producing a new thing which a manufacturer might have, and they don't want to.

And I think it's probably always been true of the big legacy businesses in any sector where they go, we're okay, thanks. We have a tried and tested model. does as well. We'll maybe pay lip service to innovation, but not do very much of it. And perhaps on the odd occasion, acquire someone who's doing it. And I guess that's always been the model, it? Big business buys innovators because they can, because the innovators have to try. But, you know, it was interesting to me that

every other meeting was fantastic. This is an amazing product. Let's talk or let's set up a call. And we have several of those done. And one or two other businesses would go, thanks, but no thanks. You know, you're taking a chance and you're asking us to rip up a long standing and very successful playbook by turning a three quarter sphere into a frisbee, which is what our product does. Why would we do that?

Chris Whyte (: 15:30

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 15:49

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 15:53

Is the market big enough? Maybe that's a fair question because the market is growing as we just said, but unproven. So there are lots of reasons. I kind of get it. But we will. And it's funny, I was digging around to prove my point, which is what we all do, don't we? And post something on LinkedIn. I was digging around in relation to Brompton.

Now when Brompton launched in: 1975

the designer of that product wasn't trying to design with convention in mind quite the reverse. He was trying to do something different. And you probably should expect the kind of long standing legacy businesses and the established sort of straight way of doing things. You expect some pushback. But I think it's a really interesting one. know, innovation is about trying things very differently. And actually having the novices mindset that I talked about in the beginning has helped me do that. You know, I don't know.

that the cavity tools that are sphere shaped doesn't bother me. We start from a blank sheet of paper and a completely clean canvas. So I think it's really interesting the kind of innovation space in any sector, but cycling has probably good cause to be a bit more wary. in many ways.

While I went to Eurobike, and the clue is in the name, if they do split as they're going to, I will go to Mobby Futures, not Eurobike next time, because that's where they see the new dawn, rather than the old way of doing things.

Chris Whyte (: 17:48

Yeah, absolutely. think. Yeah, really, really interesting to and I guess one of the advantages of being a startup for one, but also a please excuse the language here, but a naive startup founder, you know, and in a lot of ways, it's that you know,

Dom Cotton (: 18:03

I am absolutely take that naive is definitely certainly was and and you know many ways still is I think naive I mean I think I'd call it in novices mindset and I've read about this you know novices mindset it doesn't sound good

Chris Whyte (: 18:06

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 18:19

The experts mindset does, but I read about the experts have these very narrow parameters. You know, you will not be able to make a two-part helmet pass the EN 1078 safety test because and roll off a ream of reasons why that's not possible. know, that's what an expert helmet developer would have said before we made it safe, I suspect or, you know, so.

Chris Whyte (: 18:41

Yeah, yeah, your expert mindset is that this is how we do it or you can't do it any other than these prescribed ways or as you novice will be like, why, why can't we do it? What's up?

Dom Cotton (: 18:52

Yeah, I mean, what's stopping it? I mean, honestly, we used to walk around central London when we were scratching our heads when I say we I mean, me and my co founder, we you know, we were running out of money. And we used to walk around and we said look up you'd be walking central and you look at the shard and you'd go hmm, that building is

however many stories high, it is a feat of engineering genius. And there it is. And no one, you know, no one died making it. They said I think they did. And it's incredible. Or beyond that, they put men on the moon. So surely, you know, that's how the kind of entrepreneur brain goes, why can't we do it? And it did come quite close to us not being able to do it because we we ran out of money, like I say, but.

Chris Whyte (: 19:25

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 19:34

But the money thing aside, and we managed to scramble over the line just about, and then we raised some more money because we'd done it. But yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 19:42

Yeah, no, it's this. When you when you say it like that, it's like, yeah, we we put people on the moon. So we Yeah. It seems harder to do it today than it did kind of 60 years ago. Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 19:49

It feels like anything should be possible, but you know...

Dom Cotton (: 19:56

Well, yeah, and you have always to raise. I've just got to shut my annoying messages down. You have got to. You've got to as well as the product, you've also and again, this is presumably, you know more about this than I do. But the notion that inventors, if that's what we are, have an idea and. Do no consumer consultation is also.

I'm confident in saying that that is commonplace. we have sought, certainly at the beginning, very early stage before we designed the product, we sought to speak to people who might use it. And, you know, doing some human centered design rather than just having a hair brain scheme and going, yeah, let's make it, you know, when we think we would want it. So we did, we did some of that, you know, we did working with the designers we've had involved, they went, and we got a small

Chris Whyte (: 20:47

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 20:54

Grant from Innovate UK in 2018-19 and did some consumer work with potential consumers, people who might buy the product, some committed bike riders, some infrequent bike riders and some non-bike riders and go, look, if there was a folding product, would you use it? They all went, yes, if it was safety certified. And then they said, if the folded shape of the product,

when it's in its packed state is a convenient state to put into the bags. Hence the sort of profile that we've come up with with the product, which is this sort of relatively flat kind of frisbee that can go into a bag next to a laptop. So yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 21:29

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 21:35

I think now might be a great time if you're able to share that. Because I was going to say just show us the product on screen, but actually you've spent quite a bit of money and time on this advert, which demonstrates it perfectly. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Just shares, shares screen and play. Yeah. So for anyone listening, now's the time to jump onto YouTube and watch.

Dom Cotton (: 21:39

Yes.

Dom Cotton (: 21:45

Yeah, I can show you the ad-lib. So I just play it, I just share my screen and play it as we do.

Dom Cotton (: 21:59

Okay, this is an advert we've had created with a very famous, anyway, the background behind the advert is probably not the point, but this showcases the product in a kind of out there sort of way. A guy called Tony Davidson, pardon? It literally is out there, absolutely right, yeah, A guy called Tony Davidson made it and he's quite well known in the advertising space. He did it at very cut price, I think partly because he's sort of coming out of retirement anyway.

Chris Whyte (: 22:13

literally out there, literally out there in outer space yeah

Dom Cotton (: 22:28

And it showcases the product. And the campaign is called Plenty of Space. And that's kind of obvious when you see it. And the point being that we have created more space for your bag by having a space-saving helmet. I'll play the advert.

Chris Whyte (: 22:41

I love it,

Chris Whyte (: 23:11

So yeah, absolutely love that for anyone just listening and not watching. it's essentially out floating out of space. It shows the helmet going from fully assembled, unclipped and then flipped around to its packable state and then just slides nicely, ducks into the backpack and then floats away. It's great.

Dom Cotton (: 23:33

You got it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a tribute to 2001 Space Odyssey, which is clearly a film that this guy totally loves. And it's a film that I don't know if everyone's seen it, but certainly a lot of people have. And there is a sequence in it which uses the same music, which has the...

Chris Whyte (: 23:49

Hmm.

Dom Cotton (: 23:52

I think it's called Space Dance. Basically it has the various space stations and things that are floating in in space, dancing effectively to the music and it's attributed to that. I mean it's you know honestly this is this is so interesting because we've done to this point we've been all about functional advertising. Okay we want to make it nice, we're trying to build a brand and all the rest of it and I think we've done a good job of that. Our website is very clean and sort of clear and all the rest of it. Lots of very

kind of, you know, on the nose messaging consumer, people who commute would want a product they can put into the bag for obvious reasons. And it's been about function. The product folds, you can therefore use it to put in your bag when you go from A to B. And this is an extension of that. And maybe we've gone earlier than we might otherwise have done because we got the opportunity to, we've got a cheap deal on some advertising around the Tour de France on ITV4 because they support startups.

So they do a deal which is through part of ITV called ITV Ventures and they give you a cheap deal, partly also because TV advertising is harder to sell than it ever was because of obvious reasons. And then our agency who helps with our digital marketing found Tony and know Tony and said he wants to get back in, he loves your product, he's got an idea and from there it's sold. And all of a sudden we've got an advert which in the old days would have cost, we've been quoted a quarter of a million pounds to make that.

Chris Whyte (: 24:58

Yeah

Chris Whyte (: 25:09

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 25:18

I don't know. Anyway, this is a very high end piece of content that's going on a main TV channel around a bike race. And that is, again, it's that sort of entrepreneurial spirit that we've continued with. And you said it, you know, we've learned about making things. We've always had, me and Josh, I'm talking about when I say we, had this storytelling capacity, sales and communications. And so ultimately this very much plays into our hands, but...

Chris Whyte (: 25:18

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 25:45

even said having said all that when we first heard the idea I was like that's mental what's he on about you know we you know functional advertising is showing someone getting off a line bike folding an helmet putting in a bag and going into their office you know that's the kind of but this is an extension to

what I think marketeers would call emotional advertising and it's what all big and successful brands, if they have the money, would do. So I think it's a very cool piece of content. looks good. It will hopefully get people interested in finding and buying our product. But it also is a very clear statement of intent. know, we don't just want to be

I mean, you we knew it's about our aspirations around growth and around, you know, building this, this making the folding helmet, preferably ours, a widely understood product just in the same way that Brompton has made the folding bike, it's taken them 50 years, I hope it doesn't take me, I'll be dead before then, but 50 years, but you know, they have turned their product into a sort of curiosity, a kind of niche thing into for

hundreds of thousands of people and everyday sort of essential. I think that's really what we hope to get to. The truth is, to do that, we'll probably need some help. And that's kind of where we are now. That's partly why I went to Eurobikes, to find some partners.

Chris Whyte (: 26:54

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 27:09

It's fantastic. Yeah, and when you talk about kind of Brompton and you know, when you walk around a lot of the stands, the folding bike companies now, it's difficult to find one that clearly hasn't been inspired by Brompton. Some of the some of them look like, you know, they've just got a different badge on in some some respects, you know, because it's Yeah. Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 27:23

I'll be good.

Dom Cotton (: 27:29

Well, their pattern has expired as it happens. You probably know that, but their patterns only just expired and therefore there are literally bikes that are doing everything the same. don't think they can use their name, but there is in fact, so I know quite a few people at Brompton now and one of them showed me a bike and he went, look, this is going on in, dare I say it, China. And it is literally nuts and bolts, the same piece of equipment, which is a challenge I suspect for them.

Chris Whyte (: 27:38

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 27:44

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 27:48

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 27:56

Yeah, very, yeah, very challenging. Um, one of the things I guess, you, when you start a brand, you're not thinking 50 years in the future when you, um, when your IP runs out, but, um, I really, really interested. So in terms of the marketing, obviously we're so way nicely into that. Um, you know, you usually at this point, we talk about kind of lessons to share with other hardware founders, but I think because of your, your background, your media connections and kind of

Dom Cotton (: 28:06

No. No.

Chris Whyte (: 28:24

That mean, that advert is fantastic. Really kind of ties into like say ties into the motions. What advice would you give, you know, other hardware founders, whatever, whether it's micro mobility, consumer goods, meta, whatever it might be, you know, where that you can pull from your, your time in industry, your media connections, you know, kind of how to, how to tell a story, you know, if, if we're talking maybe to more of a techie kind of engineering kind of founder.

Dom Cotton (: 28:31

No.

Dom Cotton (: 28:53

Hmm

Chris Whyte (: 28:54

like a co founder and CTO, let's say that's not particularly well versed in story time. Is there any advice you would give them? You know, where would they start to get their get their story out there?

Dom Cotton (: 29:10

That's a really good question. And yeah, we did it back to front and that's a very good observation. think, you know, if it doesn't come naturally, I mean, you know, the truth is I didn't design this helmet. I mean, we...

I've done lots of, my hands have been on it a lot and I've had lots of, but we, in the same way that I'm about to suggest, that if you're a techie engineer, make sure you have either in your internal team or certainly very close to it, someone who can help you tell the story. Because that's what we had to do when designing this product. We've used four designers, we've used all sorts of industrial, we've used manufacturing partners. So, and we've got it wrong or we've made missteps along the way, you know, I could, you know.

Lots of missteps. Let's put it like that. So I don't want to give the impression that this was an easy journey because it's taken a long time and we've made lots of mistakes. Definitely true. But I think if you're saying that the people listening to this might be the other way around, get ready. If you think you can make the product, well, first of all, make sure that it's a product that people want. think that's also, again, I have heard that engineers, or anyone, I suppose, but particularly true if you love the process and you get your hands and you fall into the product, you've got to make sure that when you...

test that as many times as you can along the way but make sure that by the time you are ready to launch it you have had in advance of that launch date someone lined up who can become if you don't want to do it or aren't inclined to do it become the sort of storyteller on your behalf I think that's really just like we've had designers who have been our designers while we've been waiting to tell the story so because you know it is absolutely true and I'm

Don't wish this to be the case. If you have the best product in the world, but no marketing now, there's no story around it and no budget also to spend on marketing, which is another thing which people are surprised by because it's expensive. Well done making the product, but you're not going to sell any. And while I wish this wasn't true, if you have a poor product, but a good marketing campaign and resource,

Dom Cotton (: 31:19

you can sell some, I think you'll get found out ultimately, but you can still sell more than you could do if you had a great product with no marketing. So again, sounds pretty facile to say it, but the marketing base, the story slash marketing bit is more important product. I mean, there are examples where word of mouth organic marketing will run for you or work for you, but you have to start the flywheel.

Chris Whyte (: 31:32

Mm.

Chris Whyte (: 31:44

Hmm.

Dom Cotton (: 31:44

with real intention and you have to make a good amount of noise in advance of the launch, you know, and be confident about it. And we certainly are now. I mean, we've always been confident about it, at least outwardly. There have been moments of, is this the right thing? Are people gonna buy it? I kept that quiet and kept it to myself. so it's proved that we have a product that people want.

Chris Whyte (: 32:06

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 32:07

So yeah, I would advise people to get just, if you don't wanna do it yourself, find someone and bring them in. Because I think, again, it may be a cliche, but I think the kind of design engineer kind of community might be slightly suspicious of the snake oil that is marketing, digital marketing particularly, because there is a lot of opportunities to burn through money.

you know, and misspend. And again, we have not made many, but we've made a few missteps in even in that area, because it's quite complicated now finding a consumer, particularly if you choose to do it on you have the autonomy using e commerce, but you don't have, you know, it's not easy. And you do always need a specialist to help you that.

Chris Whyte (: 33:00

Yeah, I guess you could spend a lot of money on social platforms. And like with anything, if you're pointed like a degree out from you're going to end up kind of in a completely different ballpark, aren't you saying? Interesting. So you obviously you've you've had a few deals. You know, you've got some good contacts, but has it has it been a an overarching strategy for

Dom Cotton (: 33:04

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 33:11

Absolutely.

Chris Whyte (: 33:28

building the brand with limited resources up until the point where you had the advert made.

Dom Cotton (: 33:34

That's a good question. I mean, we have done a lot of work on brand and rename the thing and play it with that. I think, and actually, know, low level at the moment, you know, we're beginning to find an audience and people know us a bit. And our social media has been very effective. One of the key decisions we made in advance of launching was to hire

s, you know, but of course in: 2025

love them or hate them, you've got to play the game. And we have done that. And our views are, for a small, small folding helmet company, our views are way above what they should be, at least compared to, you know, when we talk about our peers. So that we've taken very seriously. So I think...

building awareness and being relatively polished when people find your website, those kind of basic hygiene factors, but building awareness is something we've taken very seriously. And I think it's the only way to, and you can do it, you know, if you, we've got a guy who's used to work on YouTube and he's a very switched on young guy who can make all sorts of things. He can cover, you know, emails and you know, cause the marketing through email, the marketing through.

through social media is really important and Frank can do everything. So, but we, Josh and I go out onto the streets as founders and play.

Dom Cotton (: 35:31

not play the game, we go and talk to people who might want our product. We go to railway stations and say, have you seen this? Have you seen folding helmets? And we show them the product, we film it, we put it up there. Some of them love it, some of them don't want to talk to us. Some of them tell me we need them alone. But we talk to enough people and we share that on bi-weekly basis and it really helps. Some of the couple of films we've got have got in excess of a million views, which again, doesn't mean we get a million sales, but we build profile. We build profile.

Chris Whyte (: 35:41

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 35:57

So I've seen for meetings. It's really powerful. And certainly for me and Josh as communicators or people who don't mind standing in front of a camera, it makes it easier than my talking to people. I'll talk to anyone, particularly when comes to the product. we're using that to our advantage, but I would say that that's really important. And some of it you can do with just a bit of sort of, you know,

Chris Whyte (: 35:57

Yeah, I remember.

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 36:25

the word a bit of bit of upfront standing around some and but it does cost money we spent again for our business in the month of November Black Friday month last year we spent nearly 30 grand on digital marketing for a business that you know that's quite a significant sum of money that's a lot of helmets where but we had to and it paid dividends we sold more helmets than we'd ever sold before because of the month more so yeah

Chris Whyte (: 36:28

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 36:39

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 36:47

Yeah. You've got to you got to build up to that point, haven't you? You've kind of figuring out a flow and then having that confidence to put down that kind of kind of money. I can't imagine the feeling you had in your stomach when you pressed pay or kind of accept the terms or whatever it was.

Dom Cotton (: 37:05

That's a good point. mean, yeah, it is definitely expensive. It definitely is. Yeah, it is. It's complicated. Yeah, I mean, you've got you've got to feel you've got to know that it's the right thing to do. But of course, you know, there's so much and there's lots of risks you take. You know, we're doing something new. And you it is you got to be comfortable with the risks or you got to work out a way that those risks don't get your house repossessed or something.

Chris Whyte (: 37:35

Absolutely. So you mentioned that obviously it's been a bumpy ride. I'm conscious of I've accidentally chipped over a few cycling puns during this interview. I'm not going to apologize for them. perhaps you could give us some insight into some of the biggest surprises or challenges you faced building Newland.

Dom Cotton (: 37:47

I'll back cause... gonna... No, no, no, no, no.

Dom Cotton (: 38:03

I think we didn't know it takes so long. think that's kind of self-evident. I had no idea how long it would take. And I am told the hardware is harder, literally, because the kind of correction loop, or at least the design loop, can be long, even for a relatively small product like ours, because of the safety test. So I didn't know that you can only certify a helmet.

once you've built the tools of which the mass production version will be produced. So you have to have a set of production tools. You can't build a tool which, you know, kind of silicon tool or prototype tool and get the certification. You need to have the steel tools off which you will be producing the commercial version. So that's hard.

Chris Whyte (: 38:57

Wow.

Dom Cotton (: 38:58

Yeah, that's because you can't certify unless they know that that's the same product that they're going to be selling to punters. So there was a particular quirk of a safety product. So, we built our tools too early because what we didn't know was how far away we were from having a product that would be sellable, would be passed the test. So we spent...

Chris Whyte (: 39:04

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 39:23

six-figure sum on a set of tools. We have 12 tools in all, one in China which does the expanded polystyrene, the foam bit, and another 11 in Birmingham which produce the injection molded parts. And we didn't know, so we built them thinking we were quite close. This was probably in 2021, and our first set of tools built. And then the modifications that followed, I...

can only guess because there's too many to, I don't got a rundown. Every small tweak to every small part needed to go through a correction loop and it cost money. Once we had the tool shipped back from China to our factory in Birmingham, the modification process was expensive and slow. So you go on our helmet, we've got more parts, it's got, excuse the noise, we've got 30 parts of this helmet, not six or eight.

Chris Whyte (: 40:01

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 40:09

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 40:11

and every time a part fails you wonder why, you look at it and you assess why that part has failed based on the tests and the tests are pretty sort of you know in-depth and robust. They drop a helmet onto anvils, you know some of them are flat and some of them are kerbstone, they heat the helmet up to plus 50, they cool one down to minus 20, they put one in a UV chamber to artificially age it and then they test it.

And each time they test it and it fails, you're like, well, why did it fail? We quite quickly worked out that there were some clear failure areas. Does anyone listen to this who makes products will know is you can fix a product in one part and you may have fixed it in that part, the knock on concrete, it goes somewhere else. The force is pushed to the next week space and so on. So we chased the problems around the helmet. So it took a really long time to do that.

Chris Whyte (: 40:53

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 41:04

So I would say that the biggest challenge we faced with tooling too early, we would have in hindsight, even though what I said is true about certification, we would have gone much further down the prototype route and made it much closer to this before pressing go on the tools. So I think I didn't know that. And

I mean, that's definitely been the challenge that probably did come out of our novices mindset, you

Chris Whyte (: 41:35

Well, you're not given any advice on that. You know, when you were having these tools made, perhaps you should kind of work prototypes first. You know, it seems. Yeah, yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 41:45

We did have a prototype. had several prototypes, but I think we were under the impression because you can build a test rig, suppose, testing is about going to a sort of independent test house where they can smash it around, but they don't tell you why it failed. just say it failed and give you the report and you have to make your own. Because they're not supposed to, because they're not trying to help you. They're trying to, you know, it's a, testing and certification is, think, understandably impartial and all the rest of it, but they won't go back and make it pass, which is what we ended up having to do.

But I think that's probably where. One other thing that we maybe misstepped on, making helmets, and we did it in the UK, most helmets are produced, won't surprise people to hear that most 90 % are made in the Far East. There is, I think, one other bike helmet producer in this country who make it in Cornwall. There are no helmet manufacturers really to speak of in this country, so.

I think ideally we would have worked with a helmet specialist and there were people that were the odd sort of helmet design engineer. There's not lots of people who've done it. So we work with, and again, this probably is a function of where we are novice, our newness to the whole thing is that you go, we need the designer. No, we don't. need a design engineer. No, we don't. And we need someone who's going to design for manufacture and assembly, not just make a product that you can't then build at scale.

So I mean, know, the add on to that would be we probably need a design engineer who knows about manufacturing and assembly and is in helmets or at least safety products. But yeah, so we blundered and stumbled and kind of found people. And our networking capacity has definitely been helpful. you know, if someone said to me, and I think I might have told you this at Eurobike, but it's quite a kind of helpful.

th of December: 2023

Dom Cotton (: 44:04

innovation, because even though we spent a million pounds to do what we've done for that kind of money, all of a sudden, it was a cheap innovation, you know, I mean, so, because it was real and sellable and commercializable and all those things. So, but we definitely blundered along the way and made decisions which we Josh is more regretful than me. I'm like, yeah, whatever. We still got some money back. Let's go. He's like, we should have done it like that. I'm like, well, what can we do about that? I'm doing about that.

Chris Whyte (: 44:25

Yeah, we didn't.

Dom Cotton (: 44:32

side of those things but it is frustrating to know that we could have done it in different order and probably done it for half the price.

Chris Whyte (: 44:38

think it's what you take away from it isn't what you kind of take into the future and you know, you can't currently you can't go back in time. So and you just got to keep looking forward but it sounds like say you've you're ended up with a relatively cheap kind of innovation that you can start or you have started making money from it. So yeah, any point did you feel like or think about walking away?

Dom Cotton (: 44:57

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 45:03

Definitely. Well, I mean, mainly, I mean, we both enjoy the job and enjoy the business and enjoy the product and enjoy everything but money really was the kind of kicker, know, seven years is quite a long time. mean, you know, he definitely has. I think I've had enough jobs to know that this is probably the best job I've ever had. You know, I love working for the big, I love working my whole career, but this is the kind of autonomy you have when you can, you know, but if you run out of money,

Chris Whyte (: 45:14

Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 45:30

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 45:32

I've definitely looked at jobs before. I've gone on to LinkedIn and other places to say, well, what's a mid fifties former journalist who worked for charity, who's made a hard, I mean, what the would I, that might be the problem for me is I may not be able to find another job. But then we definitely started looking around and we nearly walked away several times, really predominantly because there was no money in the bank.

Chris Whyte (: 45:49

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 45:55

What kept you in it?

Dom Cotton (: 45:58

Well, I mean, I think we, you we got we always felt that when those moments came, we were quite close. And we spent a lot of our time and energy and other people's money getting it close. And it always felt like, come on. we at every point where we've nearly gone away, you know, something good has happened. The safety test being the best example of that. So I think and as I was saying earlier on, know, the fact that behind all of this was this

that know, the winds of change around how people get around towns and cities. So get into the market and the product will sell that has always been a kind of kind of motivated for us. And, and so it's proving, you know, we still got a lot more work to do. And I think if we find that scale up partner, I think our product will become or could become will become this manifest could will become

Chris Whyte (: 46:40

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 46:50

Let's do it. Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 46:51

place rather than just being a quirky on the edge of so yeah I think we've been kept going by lots of things.

Chris Whyte (: 46:58

That's awesome. I'm glad you have because it's it's no, and I generally mean that because, yeah, spending time with you in Frankfurt, it's a hold product. See it kind of you've shown before on the screen as well, but I'm really excited to see kind of where the, where the journey goes and then see what the reaction is to the, to the advert. But the fact that advert is one thing, but having a product that, that works, it's certified, it's safe.

Dom Cotton (: 47:18

Hmm.

Yeah, you me girl.

Chris Whyte (: 47:27

that's super useful. you know, I say it will sell it's already been selling so it's exciting to see where it goes.

Dom Cotton (: 47:33

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think we are. So we're going to iterate. we're going to, it will be, isn't already a very good product of which we're very proud. It would improve because products do, right? That's something that again, people listen to this and watching this will know, you know, you need to, you need to, so we're going to improve and improve and improve and improve or iterate and iterate. But yeah, we've got a really great launch product.

Chris Whyte (: 47:54

Well, yeah. And with the, you know, with the way that the mobility industry is going as well, you had interviewed Kenny Perkins from Osmo helmets as well. I don't know if you met him while you're out there. He's making e-bike helmets for children. And some of the challenges around testing obviously been a big one, but like

Dom Cotton (: 48:13

Mmm.

Chris Whyte (: 48:20

designing a safety product for a child who's likely to drop it on the floor, you know, and but ultimately wants to wear it and kind of grows with the kid, you know. This is just the way the space changed, rather, they're designed for kids who aren't riding bikes, but are passengers in cargo bikes. then, you know, so there's all sorts of opportunities to innovate for people like yourself and Kenny that are

Dom Cotton (: 48:38

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, interesting.

Dom Cotton (: 48:46

Mmm

Chris Whyte (: 48:49

ambitious and I've got the appetite for it. So yes, it's really exciting. So rather than talking about what I'm excited for, for yourself and you Lane, you know, what what are you excited for? What's next kind of innovation and stuff? But what the next 12 to 18 months look like?

Dom Cotton (: 49:06

Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that as I've been sort of dropping in throughout the conversation is this partnership idea, because I think we are doing brilliantly, brilliantly, we're doing well, we're doing really well, we've done executed on most of things we hope we would execute on. I think, you know, to make this a scalable product, there are four people in my business plus the contract manufacturers and marketing agencies and stuff, so but four people on the payroll, essentially, and then people around, so we're small, obviously. The only way that we will grow is by

partnering with and that can mean that can take lots of forms with a joint venture with a bigger business and Brompton's been talked about and who knows. We certainly know them and know their top team very well, all the rest of it. But some form of collaboration and that can take on many, many forms. You know, we're speaking to a big manufacturer in Southern Europe called Polisport who make lots of stuff for the cycling industry. They have an interest in our product and recognize it. So I think

really for the in the next year or two we would like to be working hand in hand as long as the commercial sort of terms are appropriate with a bigger player who can do what they already do with our product and get it into more people's hands and on more people's heads. So that's kind of for me that's the biggest deal. I mean we do have to keep selling which we can do as we are.

Chris Whyte (: 50:21

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 50:29

and I hope we'll get into five figures by the end of this year. That's certainly our expectation. We're introducing the MIPS version, which again, I talked about earlier on, that is, I think, going to be a great opportunity for us. A lot of people need and want a MIPS product. And there is also, from a product development point of view, scope to develop into other verticals, because we own the patents for all helmets.

UK pattern which is also the 10 key cycling markets and in North America. So the flip clip system which means you raise the crown and invert it and drop it into the rim can be used in all other helmets and cycling helmets.

Chris Whyte (: 51:01

Mm.

Dom Cotton (: 51:05

is only somewhere near 10 % of the global helmet market across all other verticals, skiing, mountaineering, military, etc. So, you know, with the right partner or with a different partner, we sell a cycling product at bigger volumes and we work with other helmet specialists and development specialists to create a version which could be used in other verticals. I mean, those are all the those are the dreams, you outcomes and

You know, it may also be Chris, and this is, can't pretend otherwise, as you know, within a year or two or three, someone decides to try and buy our business because they see that what we've done is great and they could take it to the next level. So that's always a possibility and people often start businesses so that they can exit and do something else. I'm not a young man anymore. I'm certainly not old, but I'm not young. I, you know, I think about, I think about that kind of stuff.

Chris Whyte (: 51:55

You

Dom Cotton (: 51:58

We'll see, I guess, you know, but I think it's getting in front of people, keeping the product selling, keeping the product moving along, developing a different color or whatever, different sizes and stuff, but also having conversations with anybody at Mobby Futures and other places like that where they might go, that would complement what we've got. We're big, we do a bike, we want a helmet to go, bosh, done, you know, that kind of stuff. So there are a myriad of partnership opportunities in front of us. We just have to get.

Chris Whyte (: 52:18

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Chris Whyte (: 52:26

exciting and it's it's it's refreshing how candid and open you are about that as well because it's you know you've got lots of different routes that you could go and it just sounds like you're going to enjoy the ride whichever whichever path it takes.

Dom Cotton (: 52:32

Thank

Dom Cotton (: 52:39

Well, hope so. Yeah, I really hope so. I wouldn't mind paying myself a bit more as well at some point, but that's probably not how to say that because I think I'm the I think of the lowest paid of all my peers. that's because I've I also have the opportunity to work in my own underwear and on my own terms of work for some big business. Not at the moment.

Chris Whyte (: 52:43

Ha ha ha.

Chris Whyte (: 52:54

Yeah, I'm sure that I'm probably butchering the quote, but money doesn't make you rich does it?

Dom Cotton (: 53:02

No, no, I don't think it's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. I think I sort of recognize that we've created value. It feels to me like we have and I have to hold on to that. So you've got a set of production tools which can make the product. You've got a certification which allows you to sell the product. You've got a brand which is beginning to appeal to people and which we're pushing out and we've got sales.

you know, we've got, you know, we've got the patents and stuff. You wrap a bow around that. There's value. People use the product, people like the product, people say they like the product without too much prompting from us. That feels like a valuable thing. But you know.

Chris Whyte (: 53:44

I'd say so yeah, that, you know, that convenience factor that that kind of experience that you know, you changing someone's day. I don't feel too grand about it. But you buy you know, it's you know, you're making them safe while they get to work or go wherever they go in as well.

Dom Cotton (: 53:54

Yeah,

Dom Cotton (: 54:01

Yeah, there are a whole lot of stories around people who have accidents on bikes and they didn't have a problem.

Chris Whyte (: 54:04

That's awesome. Yeah.

Well, we'll quickly wrap this up. Just one last question. Any books or podcasts that you'd recommend to people interested in, you know, either product development, innovation or doing the storytelling?

Dom Cotton (: 54:24

I mean, I listened to podcasts probably too much, but how I built this by Guy Raz, which is on, which is your final on Apple podcasts or anywhere else. sure I found that really inspirational to start with. And he was talking to business owners of all kinds, not just Star Wars stuff. It's very happy. Their stories are so brilliant. I found that I have found that inspirational. There's a, there's another podcast I've started listening recently, which is an English guy called Alan Smith's called the Bulletproof Entrepreneur. And again, it's that whole thing about resilience, you know,

Chris Whyte (: 54:50

OK.

Dom Cotton (: 54:54

Those are the two that I currently listen to. mean, I listen to, there's a couple of American guys called Startup Therapy, it's called. They're again, and they're two guys who've exited businesses. They're very good. I think I have over the years used them as an inspiration, but also as a kind of a crutch to ensure that what we have gone through in the ups and downs.

Chris Whyte (: 55:15

Mm.

Dom Cotton (: 55:20

to understand that it's not just us. The journey we're on is a relatively common one, even if the specifics of our product is different. The fact that it takes a long time and it's hard to raise money and you might get cross because you haven't got the income and stuff, that's just the thing. So I do listen to and seek out. Reassurance from podcasts. I mean, I also read some books, but...

Chris Whyte (: 55:26

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 55:36

Absolutely yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 55:50

tend to listen more than I'm an audio book man rather than a reader. Although I've got loads of books in my bed, some of which I've dipped into. yeah, the podcast, how I built this is kind of what kept me going for three years. And it's a really, there's loads of big and small businesses on there.

Chris Whyte (: 55:54

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 56:01

Yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah. I think it's validating, it? To hear and that's why I always enjoy asking people in a cathartic way, you know, where it went wrong. Let's talk about the downs as well as the ups. You know, because people can resonate with that. And hopefully it helps people go.

Dom Cotton (: 56:18

Yes.

Dom Cotton (: 56:26

Yeah, mean to pretend that don't yeah, well to pretend that things don't go wrong is ridiculous. So, you you've got to present a kind of common sense face to the world, otherwise who's going to believe in you or your product or invest in you or your product. But you've also got to accept the failures, it's essential to this whole thing. We failed more, what so many, well failed tests, literally failed. So it's fine, you know.

Chris Whyte (: 56:31

Yeah

Chris Whyte (: 56:49

Yeah. Yeah, but it's the journey, isn't it? The failures part of the journey. yeah. Awesome. Well, we're in danger of kind of straining to a completely different kind of podcast there if we start talking about kind of philosophy and stuff. But Dom, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you, going through your story. Thank you again for spending the time with me.

Dom Cotton (: 57:04

Yes.

Dom Cotton (: 57:09

Yeah.

Dom Cotton (: 57:12

Love it.

Chris Whyte (: 57:18

really appreciate it and so.

Dom Cotton (: 57:18

Really enjoyed it, really enjoyed it. yeah, good luck with the podcast and I look forward to hearing the episode. But yeah, thank you Chris.

Chris Whyte (: 57:24

Yeah, well, I'd say now good luck with the advert. By the time this comes out, it'll be out there. So yeah, looking forward to it. All right.

Dom Cotton (: 57:32

Yeah, let's see. Cheers.