Why Design Should Take Over the World: A Conversation with Tylan Tschopp

Chris Whyte (: 00:01

Thailand, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you on the show.

Tylan Tschopp (: 00:04

Thanks for having me.

Chris Whyte (: 00:06

Not all not all things make in the time. So yeah, I'm to do my best to introduce you for those of you those of the listeners who aren't familiar with self but your Thailand shop you are the executive vice president of industrial design and innovation over at Westinghouse, where you're leading the charge to rebuild the consumer product division from the ground up. And before that, they spent a big chunk of your career over at Stanley Black and Decker where you worked your way up from

design roles to leading global innovation and licensing teams. Today, we're going to dive into your journey, how you think about design leadership, what it takes to build fast and efficient product teams inside legacy brands. So yeah, Tyler, I'm really looking forward to diving into this. Yeah, it's going to be great. So let's start where we always start with the podcast. And that's the question, why design? What drew you into design in the first place?

Tylan Tschopp (: 00:51

and I'm looking forward to it as well.

Tylan Tschopp (: 01:04

So this goes back to high school, I would say. And I am very much a product of my parents. So my mom has a small graphic design firm in Cincinnati, Ohio named 5 Visual. And my dad was an engineer previously at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. And then he became an engineering leader at GE Aircraft Engine. So literally that hybrid between design and engineering.

I debated between the two professions coming out of high school, looking at college. And I started in mechanical engineering, actually spent quite a bit of time there, did a nine month co-op at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base doing work on ceramic matrix composites, which is a mouthful. Decided that was not the path that I really wanted to be in.

learned more about industrial design along the way. actually learned about Ohio State's program there too, so I was there and then transferred over. And just love industrial design from the start. So as soon as I really got exposure to what it truly was, I was hooked. It's an easy one.

Chris Whyte (: 02:08

Amazing. And yeah, your career has been super interesting, hasn't it over the years. like I said, a big chunk of that since the mid 2000s really working at Stanley Black and Decker, but talk through those early, early kind of experiences within, know, ITW and Ingersoll Rand, then kind of some of the kind of key key lessons you learned there that then led you into

Yeah, Stanley Black and Decker more consumer goods, I suppose.

Tylan Tschopp (: 02:39

No, absolutely. So I started as an intern actually down in Jackson, Tennessee for Craig Steinfels working with him and Dustin Lee who ironically he leads industrial design innovation for Worthington Industries now. But I credit him for having taught me how to draw. That's why I mentioned his name because he was our TA in drawing class. But down there I learned a lot from those guys learned about visual design language. The wall has always been a very strong visual design language and I would

argue a leader in that space. So I learned a lot there, then went and studied abroad at Schwäbisch-Kamund in Germany, came back, graduated, and did some consulting work and eventually made my way to the consumer industrial design team at Stanley Blackendecker in Towson, Maryland.

And I was just very, very fortunate for the group of people that I came in with. There was a lot of folks, very similar age, experience. And because of the housing crisis and the economy at the time, we had an unusual amount of talent on a small team that I don't think would have all made it to the same place if that hadn't been the case. So I learned a lot from those guys.

many folks from CCS, was David Miller, Rob Schock are two that were extremely talented on that team that I learned from. yeah, was a great experience early in my career. We had different skill sets as a team. think actually later in a presentation that that team was referred to as the Beatles, which is a pretty charming thing. I think that makes me Ringo on that one, by the way.

It was really phenomenal. A really high energy bunch of transplants spent all their time inside and outside of work together. It kind of, I would say, kind of went to war together. We were in the studio until nine o'clock at night trying to crank out new lines of Porter Cable or Black and Decker or Bostitch, Stanley Krapmax, all new visual design languages, all chasing new commercial opportunities at big box retail.

Chris Whyte (: 04:27

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 04:33

Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 04:41

It was intense but quite fun, so was a lot of work hard play hard, I'll say.

Chris Whyte (: 04:46

Amazing. And you stayed at Stanley Black and Decker for a long time, didn't you? What was it that kept you there for all that time?

Tylan Tschopp (: 04:58

think the people for one, there's some just great human beings. I'm a big fan of the East Coast culture, very direct communication too, which I thrive in that type of environment. I had opportunities so early on I got to lead the Suzhou Industrial Design Team and was responsible for upskilling them.

that was a great growth opportunity. There was just constant growth opportunity for me in that environment. And I was learning a lot about other sections of the business. I'll say Stanley Blackendecker, I can attribute to my high business acumen because they're very open with company metrics, what's going on, what the goals of the organization are financially. And I learned a lot. I just was very much eyes and ears open during that time. And so a lot of growth for me during the time there.

So as a designer, you really get manipulative control from beginning to production there. It's not like a consultancy or something where there's a point where you hand off a product and you hope that it comes out without more than 10 % dilution of the design intent. You really get to go argue over a quarter of a millimeter on a radius on a gear case all the way to go into China and talking to the injection mold supplier for the housing and making sure that it comes through correct.

Yeah, it was a great environment and always new brands and challenges during my career too. So it's been quite fun.

Chris Whyte (: 06:26

And how much of that, you know, the time that you'll see, it looks like you moved kind of, or you stepped up or kind of moved roles every couple of three years, whilst you were there, how much of that was, you know, self driven and you kind of go in and asking for the next move and how much was like, you know, your boss or your boss's boss kind of pulling you along?

Tylan Tschopp (: 06:49

It was probably 99 % me going and asking.

Chris Whyte (: 06:54

Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 06:55

quite assertive. think of things that I've done that maybe have even created waves by pursuing it. Not to say there weren't times when I was asked. Actually, later in my career, I was very much pulled into more things. In fact, my last role, was kind of claimed into. I was on a meeting and they announced that I was going to lead the Hand Tools and Swords Board and no one had spoken to me about it at all before. So definitely, I guess, a mix. But I think you're responsible for your own career. In fact, that was something that

preached to us there by Jeff Ansell, who ran the business.

Another thing that stuck out in my mind that he said actually in a town hall meeting was take the role that nobody else wants, like the challenging one that's actually valuable to the business. And I definitely took that to heart and jumped on roles that the licensing role in particular was not viewed as an attractive one from the industrial design group. And I jumped into that challenge full force and it paid dividends for me personally.

Chris Whyte (: 07:59

Awesome. what was in terms of that specific role then, what wasn't so kind of glamorous or appealing to your colleagues that you kind of sort of saw or that, you know, made it great for you.

Tylan Tschopp (: 08:10

Yeah, yeah. So licensed products at the time, I don't know how familiar you are with the licensing business, but there's a very large part of that is character licensing. So Disney, Marvel, those guys where 90 % of the product is the character. It's a piece of plastic shaped like that.

Then you get into the brand licensing and there's a lot of transactional brand licensing where it's, yeah, we want to sign a deal with you. We have this line of flashlights. We want to put Black and Decker on the side. So from a design standpoint, it's not in your VDL. It's not really the most attractive. It's typically dated or already advertised tooling. And they're just trying to put the brand on it and make money to get retail placement by having a brand versus not. So a lot of the product at that time for Stanley

Chris Whyte (: 08:47

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 08:52

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 08:56

Okay.

Tylan Tschopp (: 08:59

and black and decker brands was exactly that or it was from a divestiture of the business. So yeah, product-wise.

Chris Whyte (: 09:05

interesting. So you'd have you'd have product companies pitching you say, can we put Stanley on this? Okay.

Tylan Tschopp (: 09:13

Yes, we'll pay you the royalty percentage to use the brand. want to put it on this product line. So, you know, there wasn't a lot of design. In fact, the way that was handled before was more evaluating like, yeah, that one's OK. Yeah, that one's not. And that's pretty traditional on the licensing side. And.

For me, John Cunningham was our president of the consumer business. Then he had gone back into business development and licensing. And he had basically posted a role and just said, what would you do with this? And I built out a strategy of co-development of product with licensees, really to protect brand equity and to develop product the same way we would core, but using a licensee's resources. And that worked really, really well. So it was very different. So what it was,

not very attractive. What it turned out to be became sort of an internal consultancy for external licensed partners to develop product. And I can happily say from a financial side, I think it's my best story in my career as we took that business top line from 700 million to 4.3 billion in eight years. Because if we hadn't done a strategy like that, we would have never licensed DeWalt in the categories that we did. And we would have never had the success with the Craftsman brand after acquiring

Chris Whyte (: 10:28

Hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 10:32

that we did. yeah, was a great team. Not just me, but that strategy is exactly what I ended up doing for eight years, which was great.

Chris Whyte (: 10:35

So.

Chris Whyte (: 10:41

I mean, if there's ever an advertisement for the place of design at the, you know, the decision making table, then that's it, isn't it? So that's really interesting. So it like you're onto a good thing there. And it was quite an exciting, quite a new thing as well, where you had a big opportunity ahead of you. What led to you then joining Westinghouse? perhaps we should, for the people listening,

that aren't familiar with Western House, probably give a bit of overview of that brand, hundreds of years old, I believe.

Tylan Tschopp (: 11:16

Yeah. Yeah.

his January. So it started in: 1886

and Nikola Tesla's invention of AC current was displayed then. And that's when Westinghouse funded all of his work and won the current war to go to AC current, thankfully. Otherwise we'd have transformers all over the country. And since then, Westinghouse was really a large industrial conglomerate, similar to GE at the time where they were in energy. The first moon landing cameras were Westinghouse. There's a ton of

radar in the nose cone of an airplane comes from Westinghouse. was just big, big pieces of legacy engineering and innovation under the Westinghouse brand that just very attractive to me. The opportunity to rebuild something with that kind of legacy and history just felt like a really fun, fun opportunity for me to take on.

Chris Whyte (: 12:32

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 12:41

Yeah, because I know when I was looking into Westinghouse before we first were introduced, because I had in my head that it was like a nuclear company, but obviously was parts of that. But then there was a strong presence within the consumer goods space, the appliances space. then that's kind of, correct me if wrong, was kind of mothballed some time ago. now you're leading the charge to resurrect that.

Tylan Tschopp (: 13:11

Yeah, was. So Westinghouse was everything inside the home in like the 50s and 60s. There's great old commercials with like the cast of I Love Lucy, you know, trying to sell Westinghouse product back then.

And they held that position up into the 70s and even like early 80s in many categories. But when it got into the 90s, they had to divest the industrial box CBS and divested really large pieces of the industrial like Northrop Grumman bought the defense side, which is a big piece. Nuclear was sold. Large industrial motors for like battleships and Navy ships, things like that went to Tico Westinghouse. So nuclear and Tico Westinghouse are still part of our organization today through

through licensing, but many others, electrical controls, went to Eaton, I believe, and I think Siemens is who picked up healthcare. So there was just really big chunks that were sold off, and there was a number of reasons for that. think product development for nuclear hadn't necessarily turned profitability, but was very expensive. And thankfully, it's why Westinghouse is in a leadership position in that space now, because of those early investments. But yeah, that kind of...

Chris Whyte (: 14:04

Hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 14:23

diverted the attention of the organization in the 90s.

Chris Whyte (: 14:26

Hmm. So what would you say were some of the biggest kind of differences coming from a, you know, a business like Stanley Black and Decker where, you know, the user, the consumer, obviously it's tools predominantly, but you know, where that's like the core versus something that's kind of is means different things to different kind of industries and has lost its way slightly in the consumer space, but where are the key differences there from your day to day experience?

Tylan Tschopp (: 14:55

Yeah, I would say there's a lot of parallels between Westinghouse and the Black & Decker brand. So in my last four years at Stanley Black & Decker, I led industrial design innovation for Black & Decker. We were in the middle of a resurgence for that brand. And it does span across a lot of very broad consumer categories. So that ties to Westinghouse quite a bit when you get into the small domestic appliance, medium, large appliance space, and those other consumer products.

So there's a lot of parallels there. I would say where Westinghouse is different is the light industrial to industrial side of the business is just massive equity, still very, very competent government contracts. mean, they went for nuclear, went for contracts with NASA last year to do nuclear powered on the moon and on satellites and just really, really cool stuff. We're not doing any design work for that, but we are in close communication with those guys.

And it's just fascinating work. So that's where it's different. There is no ceiling, I think, as far as where Westinghouse can play. It has right and historical right to do so, which is really fun. But bridging that gap between the innovation that still is occurring, very much so in those industrial spaces and with the consumer product space is an interesting challenge for us, but one that we're excited about.

Chris Whyte (: 16:16

Mmm.

Chris Whyte (: 16:22

Yeah, because I mean, you come back to the why it's it's difficult to define that I guess with a with a business that's got kind of many fingers in many pies there and doing a good great job kind of across it. how do you deal with that as a designer, you know, not having a or do you do feel like there is an identity right now for Western house what it is?

Tylan Tschopp (: 16:46

I think there's an identity to the legacy of the brand for sure. mean, we had the logo being done by Paul Rand, definitely speaks to designers everywhere. I think I've got a doodle of it behind my head over here. It's just, I think it's still very iconic and relevant, especially the short form of the logo.

We have an identity with all the engineering accomplishments that have occurred under Westinghouse and it's an opportunity, know, with RVDL, which I'm a big perception driven visual design language person, celebrating that engineering. So looking more towards that full engineering and intentionally communicating that is a fun challenge and similar to some things I've done in my past life as well. So that's quite fun. And the other thing I didn't mention with Westinghouse is really the team. know, our CEO took the company private.

Chris Whyte (: 17:18

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 17:26

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 17:31

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 17:34

a number of years ago and he's very passionate about the brand, the history, just art.

corporate leadership team is very nimble, very decisive, and it's an exciting thing to be a part of. can really, if we want to go after something, we go after it. We're not going to talk about it for 18 months and then maybe pull funding for it two months or two years into it or reduce it. We're going to go after it full force, is really, that's a rewarding, exciting part.

Chris Whyte (: 18:00

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 18:04

That's awesome. because it's one of the main challenges from an individual level within big business is often the pace of decisions and how things just get held up in bureaucracy. And you're so far removed from the decision makers to the actual call phase. And that's really cool. Well, let's talk about teams and your experience.

You've built and led teams from scratch, you know, you've also inherited existing ones. You've told me that mentorship and feedback are key to how you operate. what do you, Tainan, what do you look for really in top talent, top design talent, if you can distill it into kind of two or three points.

Tylan Tschopp (: 18:52

Yeah, the first thing is identifying talent.

Finding design talent is important. For young designers, showcasing your skills and showing that you've committed to the craft to develop those skills is really important. I like to see growth. When you look through a portfolio, you want to see someone who maybe their form development, their sketch rendering, or their thinking and process evolves as projects go through. It's more, I say, more negative if it's all the same all the way through. You wonder, will they progress? I like to see that growth. Attitude is really, really important.

This goes across any team, I think. You want someone who's hungry and willing to contribute and asks, what else can I do? Seeing that type of energy is important to me. Really inquisitive folks, too. Another piece is having a design eye, even just looking at another designer's inspiration. What gets them excited? What's aesthetically pleasing to them? What they think good design looks like? That's another really important thing, too, because you can see what they're aspiring towards.

And admittedly, I've seen folks that have really high talent, but I would argue that the direction they're chasing is not one that I think would be advantageous, at least to work with me or my team. So.

Let's see what else. I like folks that are a little bit competitive too, honestly, a little bit of that competitive edge, not in an unhealthy way, but having sat on teams where people are kind of competing with each other or trying to make the best design proposal or start. It's refreshing and it helps everyone grow. A little bit of that helps everyone grow. I like everybody to be just a tiny bit uncomfortable occasionally. It's fine.

Chris Whyte (: 20:27

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 20:39

Have you seen that backfire though?

Tylan Tschopp (: 20:42

I have seen I would say over time not not on my teams specifically but I have seen where it becomes You know a negative relationship because people are competing really really hard or a project gets switched from one designer to another Which is not something I ever like to do honestly, but you sometimes it may be necessary, but it's a rare case Yeah, it depends on the personalities you have I think if you hire, you know

Chris Whyte (: 21:04

Hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 21:09

really positive people. think having that competition is good.

Chris Whyte (: 21:15

Yeah, it's from a management point of view, you've got to stay on top of it though, haven't you? Make sure it doesn't get out of hand or that it's healthy rather than toxic. yeah, you want people to be driving for the best and pulling other people up with them.

Tylan Tschopp (: 21:31

Yeah, I think some of that comes to like when I say competition to it wouldn't be on the same project. It would be everyone has full ownership from cradle to cradle as a designer on my team. So it's your project. But if you want yours, know, every designer is like, you know, if theirs is looking a little bit better or it feels like a better design solution than the other, you know, that's the kind of competition I mean, specifically. So, yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 21:40

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 21:44

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 21:49

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 21:55

Yeah. And if you had a choice, of say that there's a blank slate tomorrow and you had the choice between building a team from scratch versus inheriting one, would there be a, you know, is there a clear preference for yourself?

Tylan Tschopp (: 22:12

Yeah, yes, I'm building all day. I probably have a short list of about 30 people that I would build if we, depending on how big of a team we wanted, I would make calls and I would argue just because there's so much talent available right now too.

Chris Whyte (: 22:25

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 22:27

Yeah, we could build one hell of a design team really, really quickly because of the resources are there. I love building teams. It's a really fun thing for me. You find out who meshes well with me and my style of being very direct and blunt and high energy. I've always told young designers that we're here to build rock stars only. you know, it's a level of effort and we'll put that same effort into the designer and training and helping and mentorship.

Chris Whyte (: 22:43

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 22:55

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 22:56

And from a productivity, from a business standpoint, think we are, I say we, guess I've had great success in that light. We can be very productive teaching designers to know that last, sometimes it's a visual literacy question, but if you're aiming for 97 % flawless execution, that's.

Chris Whyte (: 23:14

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 23:20

That's good. That last 3 % might take just as much time as the first 97%. And that costs you a whole nother program that probably costs the business millions of dollars if it's a large, large business. And just understanding that value, that having that business acumen makes you a better designer. I think the broader you understand the overall constraints, the more powerful of a designer you become for a business.

Chris Whyte (: 23:22

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 23:28

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 23:36

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 23:45

Absolutely. Yeah. Really interesting. So you're putting a, let's talk about a hypothetical scenario here. So you're putting together a team tomorrow and you, know, I'm guessing, yeah, you want rock stars, but reality is, you know, you can't have a team of eight players because some of, some of slightly like eight plus somewhere in mind, you know, there's, always differences between them. So just wondering, you know, what kind of traits or do you assign kind of

you know, certain kind of, not necessarily positions, but you know, as part of the makeup of your team, you have kind of identities of kind of, I need someone who's a, who's a leader, need someone who's a do you know, what kind of, does the team, what's the team made up of in an ideal world?

Tylan Tschopp (: 24:28

Yes. No, 100 % you do. I would argue, I think you can have all A players, but they're all going to have different strengths and it's going to be complementary strengths similar to, I'd say like a baseball team, a shortstop and an outfielder maybe have some similarities, but third base and a catcher, very different skill sets. And we need all of them. You need all of them to have a really competitive team. So, but as far as the makeup of mine,

Chris Whyte (: 24:40

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 24:54

I look at it in twofold. And this is where I've bucked with HR historically in some of these cases. I'm not one who's going to write up the ideal traits and skills for something and try to go find that person. In the design world, that tends to be a unicorn every time I do that anyways. I more like to look at what talent is available and what type of team can we build with that available talent. I'll give an example. So two unicorns, I'll mention their names just because they

They are exactly that. John Bernie and Leighton Merritt are both exceptional in 3D form development ergonomics. They can build in CAD faster and more accurately to a design intent than anybody else I've ever interacted with. And they're just sponges for learning tools and how to do that. And I'm not saying they're not the same person either, but they both have those very rare similar traits that I would call a unicorn. But someone who can move

that rapidly and understand the design intent, not diluting it is a phenomenal asset to have on a development team. And those that are problem solvers too, think 3D development can be tedious and not the most rewarding roles. Like we have a surfacing group at Stanley Black and Decker and that

Chris Whyte (: 25:57

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 26:16

That team is where the rubber meets the road, so they get beat up quite a bit because the timeline, everything falls on them. Anyone else drops the ball, it all falls in their lap. So having some serious horsepower there is just an extremely powerful thing to have on it.

Chris Whyte (: 26:33

Mm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 26:34

an asset for a design team and someone who can move efficiently is willing to make that investment to do things maybe a little bit harder, a little bit more tedious, but the result is that much more refined and better versus when it's just done as an execution. Imagine someone who is a traditionally trained engineer trying to do class A surfacing on, let's say, a car or a drill or a highly ergonomic area.

Chris Whyte (: 26:45

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 26:59

They may not have the desire to do something that's going to take four more days to get this detail, you know, really pristine the way that a designer had intended. and you may go back and forth quite a bit. So, those that are up for the challenge like that, that that's one thing that I think is a very key asset. You need folks that can develop form. You know, there's people who are phenomenal at it. I'm, I'm, it's not my greatest strength. I think I'm pretty good at it now, but, I learned a lot from those around me and folks that went.

to CCS and a friend of mine, Dustin Lee, just natural form developers, they can throw down 800 different shapes of the same item, let's say a radio, for example, and they can just do that inherently. They just have that skill set that refined and it's amazing to see. It's really valuable when we're trying to develop new design language, especially if you want to try to protect it with some IP and being very conscious in how you do that. Those people are very valuable as well.

I always look for a right-hand person too and that's someone who can step in a room when I'm not there and lead and that means talking to a CEO or talking to someone else and speaking.

Chris Whyte (: 28:03

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 28:12

from a place where you have a professional design opinion and there's a reason for it. This is not something that many designers I've seen in my career tend to take a more subservient role when they're talking to senior leadership and more of a service-based role, which is important when you're a consultant, perhaps, but you still need to have your professional design opinion, not here's 10 options. Which one do you like?

Here are 10 options and here's why we believe this is the direction to go because it's giving this perception to that user and it's helping your brand equity here or it's this uniquely isolated number of form elements that we feel we can protect and ring fence so no one can copy us. I'll use Dyson as an example, the top of their little intake manifold for the vacuums that's extremely well protected through design patents.

taken some of that strategy for VDLs. It's very powerful, but you need to be able to speak to it in a language that the business is going to understand. And so looking for that lieutenant or someone who can stand there and...

communicate at that level is really, really important too. So I've got Kate Morgan on my team here, who is exactly that. I Tim Payne on my team, and Stanley Blackendecker, who is exactly that as well. that right hand lieutenant is really, really important as well.

Chris Whyte (: 29:39

Absolutely. Yeah. And you've mentioned on our previous conversations that you're very well connected. You made it kind of as an intentional thing to, you know, spot talent and have it as a long term kind of relationship building and networking, also, you know, let down the line, you might be able to call on them to form part of your team. But if you were to, you know, look at the open market, let's say look at kind of new to you people, what,

things are people doing successfully to stand out and grab your attention, whether it be as a potential lieutenant or whether it be as, you know, as a, as awesome surface model or, you know, what kind of grabs your attention on, let's say applications, not necessarily portfolios, because usually it's, get LinkedIn profile or a resume CV first. Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 30:35

Yeah, I mean, I am a stereotypical industrial designer in the fact that I will look at the portfolio first and I will read absolutely none of it at first. We're just going to look at images. We're very visual people. And if you haven't refined the skills for that yet.

then you haven't committed enough. think potential is important. It really depends. If you're looking at entry level, potential is key. Is someone making the effort? Are they growing through their portfolio? Can they sketch render? I know that that may be viewed as an older skill by some younger folks that are using Vizcom or some of the AI tools. But to date, I still have not found that you can manipulatively control and execute a design through that. There are nice support, and there's ways to use those tools.

but if you can't communicate by sketching, that's a huge disadvantage. You have to be able to sketch. My least favorite thing, and I went through some portfolio reviews recently with a school. I won't mention who it was, but three or four of the students said, me and sketching have a love-hate relationship, or I hate sketching, I don't like to do it. And I was like.

One, not something you say in an interview, but two, I appreciate your candor, but this is just not gonna be a fit ever. mean, if you're sitting in a room with either a senior leader or you're sitting there with manufacturing side, and you need to solve a problem, you need to be able to throw down and communicate a three-dimensional concept by hand in a matter of minutes. That's just a requirement for me. So, we couldn't solve problems or be a good designer without that skill.

Chris Whyte (: 31:48

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 32:05

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 32:10

And is it more important that it's, you know, that they just get something down or is it got to be, you know, got to be quality sketching? Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 32:21

It just has to be able to communicate. It doesn't have to be blown off the page, know, killer renders with the fisheye lens angle and all that. No, and over stylized. You just have to be able to communicate a simple line drawing that communicate, Hey, what if we pull this from this direction or what if we do this shape? Does that get things we want? That type of communication is important. I mean, I think it's actually something that most engineers, some that are very successful have the ability to do that as

Chris Whyte (: 32:41

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 32:51

well, which it's very helpful. those old, like I think I took in high school, like the 3D drafting with the drafting arm before AutoCAD was out. But that ability to visualize it in 3D and communicate it in 2D is really powerful.

Chris Whyte (: 32:52

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 32:59

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 33:07

Hmm. Yeah, huge. mean, I speak to a lot of, a lot of designers who have got fantastic renders in their portfolios, and it's stunning visuals. Like, where's the sketching? Like, Chris, I'm not very good at sketching. So but did you sketch? You know, how did you get to that point? So well, I just roughly draw out what I wanted it and said, well, that goes in. That's, it doesn't matter how rough it is. You know, in my mind, I'd rather see something that's like

rough and ready as long as it, like you say, communicates the idea, because then it's even more impressive that you got to that point, you know, rather than it just being the render. So.

Tylan Tschopp (: 33:39

100.

Tylan Tschopp (: 33:47

Yeah, and it's like I'll do doodles like this is just a simple one for a display. But like simple line work drawing. Sometimes I'll get there. And once, you know, I think throughout your career, you get better and better at seeing things in your head. And once you've got it there, I might go from line work straight to 3D and and bang something out really quickly just because I've got it really clear in my head.

Chris Whyte (: 33:52

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 34:01

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 34:09

Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 34:11

I think that's perfectly fine from a design standpoint. The one thing that I see though when I see mostly CAD and renders and not much on the sketching side is my business acumen brain is going, that's cost because that's time. Because if you need to iterate in 3D, you're going to need another two, three weeks to do a new concept. Whereas if you truly learn how to sketch, you can throw down the next one in an hour and a half.

Chris Whyte (: 34:40

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 34:41

Photoshop semi-realistic render, we can evaluate the concept and then make the investment of weak 3D. That's the crutch I see on the 3D bias over 2D.

Chris Whyte (: 34:48

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 34:56

It's so more interactive as well, isn't it? You could be sat in a design review and very quickly go, so did you mean like that? You know, sketch it out. And that's a lot more instant rather than let me come back to you now once I've tweaked this curve and this surface, you know.

Tylan Tschopp (: 35:12

Yeah. Yeah, the collaboration when you can sketch is just so much higher frequency. Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 35:18

Yeah, awesome. Well, yeah, something thankfully that the AI isn't going to take away from us too soon, at least.

Tylan Tschopp (: 35:27

Yeah, it will definitely make things more, it'll be really powerful tools for some designers. But yeah, we could talk about that at length, I'm sure.

Chris Whyte (: 35:33

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. So we'll try and we'll try not to touch on AI in this one. We've done it to death on another episode. So but in terms of, you know, building your team out where you are at the moment, because you're there relatively early days, isn't it? Wait, wait at Westinghouse. But what might surprise someone if they joined your your team today?

Tylan Tschopp (: 36:01

That's a good question. How much we do with such a small team, I think, would surprise someone. We've done, it's over 70 products now in first two years. I know we were over 50 in year one. And that is full production surfacing from Sketch to the full production CAD model in Katia Class A surface solids.

Chris Whyte (: 36:25

That might surprise people as well that using Katia within consumer goods.

Tylan Tschopp (: 36:29

Yes, so this is...

ented people starting back in: 2010

Chris Whyte (: 36:48

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 37:02

in a very, very fast and short timeframe.

Chris Whyte (: 37:05

Yeah, awesome. how big, Roy, how big is your team in terms of design? It's tiny, isn't it?

Tylan Tschopp (: 37:13

Direct reports right now is three people. Yes, yes. Now we've got some outside resources we've used for things but really on the

Chris Whyte (: 37:17

Three people, 70 products in a year.

Tylan Tschopp (: 37:26

on the product development side. I can say even coming into this role, I was a lot more hands-on than I even anticipated coming in. I can openly tell you that was first 50 came from yours truly. was a lot of rolling up the sleeves and getting into it, which is fun for those that love to do it.

Chris Whyte (: 37:33

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 37:41

Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 37:44

It's fun. And I think the design language, having just done the Stanley design language with the team at the Black Necker and just done the Black Necker one before, being in a place that has one brand and having that flexibility of, I don't have to section it below the vault and it's got a line up with Craftsman here, but can overlap there. None of that constraint. This was kind ready to pour out of me a little bit. it was not.

Chris Whyte (: 37:50

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 37:53

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 38:11

Yeah, because some say that, know, design needs constraint. know, but then I guess you're constrained to you've got to be you've got to be sympathetic and sensitive to the brand and the legacy of that. But then like you say, you hasn't got the defined brand language as something like Stanley.

Tylan Tschopp (: 38:33

Yeah, well, Stanley was, were, some of the products have launched, not all of them, but actually I can point this one, mostly for Europe, but this is, this is a but Stanley has a legacy and we were changing a bit. that when we did that visual design language, that whole team was phenomenal and they just started doing some marketing campaigns in Europe where that brand is really, really prevalent. Yeah, it had.

Chris Whyte (: 38:48

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 38:53

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 38:58

Hmm.

Does it make? Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 39:02

I had legacy here. There's legacy on the generator space, which we relate to very heavily. But then, you know, the rest of the consumer products, hasn't been as much in the last few decades. So was pretty open.

Chris Whyte (: 39:16

Yeah, interesting. Do you find, you know, have been free of some of the constraints? that, does that in some ways make your job a bit harder? You know, because, you know, sometimes having the constraints, you've got to narrow your kind of creativity into that spot and problem solving becomes a bit easier when you know what you work.

Tylan Tschopp (: 39:37

I would say no, but that's just because I've operated in them for so long. can say, like, openly for the Stanley video, I think we met 18 times with almost the same presentation and content and just not quite the same decisive, as you would expect with a more hierarchical, multilayered, matrix organization. And you're not in the room for all communication on it. So anytime you're interpreting through the game of telephone, it's new challenges.

Chris Whyte (: 39:41

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 39:54

Hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 40:07

or trying to do things which I'll pass off to Stanley Blackmaker that are hard to manufacture, really challenging, but we take on those challenges almost like...

Chris Whyte (: 40:13

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 40:17

like an anti-counterfeit type of approach to currency. Like if you can figure out how we made this, you know, it's another hurdle to copy or emulate. Here, we're not making those types of investments in the design language to make it really, really challenging to replicate. We're not doing like really elaborate power copies in Katia for a handle, like a dual handle, things like that. So we're more mindful of the business, you know, and manufacturing for speed here.

Chris Whyte (: 40:46

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 40:47

constraints but yeah it's kind of freeing not to have them to be honest because when you're trying to communicate something intentionally you can just dive right at it you know it's I guess the what you're trying to communicate is the constraint more so than trying to stack within a portfolio of brands.

Chris Whyte (: 40:59

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 41:07

Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting because I was at a conference, sorry, they were, the organizers were at odds to say it's not a conference. It was a festival, but it was a medtech festival. and there was lots of workshops that went alongside and I attended a branding workshop, which was really interesting because it's quite a big topic, but then they, we ran through an exercise at beginning. We gave given a, a, a brand or a product and then a medium.

advertise or brand it on and mine was

I remember what it was, but it was basically a napkin. had to advertise on a napkin and it really kind of forces you down an arrow path of quite a, how do I get this message across on this napkin? You know, and actually, and everyone had a different, different brand, a different thing to advertise, but the amount of creativity that that forced because you were like, well, I can only think about how I can use this thing to say that thing, you know? Yeah.

Quite interesting, that's hence why I thought that question really. Going back to the 70 products you've released in the last year, some of those going to be on show at CES, because you mentioned that you guys are prepping for that. Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 42:25

Yes, we will have some products showing at CES. Some have launched on Amazon already. Many are admittedly being tariff mitigated right now. So they're a little bit delayed on their launch and summer season also. miss your launch window one year, it delays through a year. But yes, many of those will be there. Some are out on Amazon now already. So, yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 42:51

Has Westley House, have they exhibited at CES before or is this new for basically what you're doing?

Tylan Tschopp (: 42:59

So the TV segment of the business has historically had a booth there. This year we'll be in the main hall in a much larger booth right near Samsung. So it will be a good showing for us and giving good tribute to the brand that very much deserves it. think there's just so much great legacy within the brand and the organization. So we'll be excited to celebrate it. yeah, it should be quite fun.

Chris Whyte (: 43:05

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 43:26

Awesome. I'll be sure to check it out when I head over there. Hopefully this episode goes out before then as well. We've not just missed the opportunity, but I'm sure it will. we'll talk to you later to supply chain. Obviously that's a big challenge right now for businesses. I imagine there's a lot of manufacturing goes on in Asia, China, but what have been

without wanting to put words in your mouth. What have been some of the biggest kind of manufacturing or supply chain challenges that you've had to solve recently?

Tylan Tschopp (: 44:01

Yeah, I mean, tariffs is the obvious one. It's the giant elephant in the room.

Chris Whyte (: 44:06

Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 44:06

you know, is when you hit what, 55 % for China. And then I think we've replicated those numbers with India and even Brazil, you know, which were obvious outlets. think Southeast Asia, you know, Vietnam, Cambodia, those places are much more reasonable. So that's one, one outlet. You know, I think Mexico is another sort of primed opportunity, but still surprisingly hit with tariffs through this whole thing. So the obvious places where diversified supply chains existed,

Chris Whyte (: 44:22

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 44:31

Hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 44:37

We're not always the obvious place to go. So I think you've seen more folks go to Thailand and other countries that have negotiated a more favorable deal on the tariff side. And the other side is the true push for US manufacturing, which I will openly admit is a system that's built for high value, high technical, more challenging manufacturing products versus very simple

Chris Whyte (: 45:01

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 45:07

easy to injection mold or manufacture or those types of products. It still makes more sense to be outside of the US and I think so because of the cost and the whole business model there. But yeah, it's really just timing and resources. Now, if you had a diversified supply chain, you're competing with everyone else who is trying to diversify. So the footprint in these smaller manufacturing footprint countries.

Chris Whyte (: 45:09

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 45:16

Hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 45:37

are being highly, it's very competitive. So if you want to say you can get brushless motors in, I'll say Vietnam, every major player that wasn't there is there now. And so you're in a scenario where, you know, the country doesn't have the infrastructure that China does and, or even India or, I'd say.

Chris Whyte (: 45:40

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 45:56

Hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 45:57

They don't have that infrastructure. And so it's way more competitive to get components, raw materials, shipping, all of that all of sudden becomes, you know, you're just moving a massive supply chain and you will not see the same cost advantages that you saw before. So it just takes time, time and energy.

Chris Whyte (: 46:16

Yeah. Well, yeah, you get, get, um, obviously tariffs being a market factor, but you get the supply and demand market factor as well. If there's, there's a limited number of alternative suppliers and they're all in high demand, the price goes up as well. So it's, um, all impacting on your ability to deliver products and your customers ability to buy kind of the, the awesome stuff you produce. And so, um, yeah, has that in, in

impacted kind of how you design products as it made it kind of filter into the other material selection or design process.

Tylan Tschopp (: 46:50

In some ways, yes. You're dealing with a slightly less sophisticated manufacturing capability sometimes. At least you know that's a possibility. for example, I'll just use this since it's right here. But for our leak blower, this is a triple shot.

So this is molded in and it's all in one mold. There's less triple shot mold machines in other countries. It's not that common anyway. So finding access to those injection mold machines is a challenge. It takes some time and you have to make sure you have enough volume to get priority with the manufacturer and things like that.

Chris Whyte (: 47:14

Okay.

Chris Whyte (: 47:33

Yeah. Does it therefore, you know, force you to simplify products or design? Yeah. I was designing with that in mind. So interesting. Yes. It's had a big knock on.

Tylan Tschopp (: 47:43

Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 47:47

with the operating within the almost in the engineers dream constraints, the really easy, you know, this is just trying to lean towards something that's very easy to execute, doesn't have much of a manufacturing challenge, do more of that as you have a volatile supply chain.

Chris Whyte (: 47:52

Hmm. Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 48:03

Hmm. Yeah, it's, it's, an interesting one, because you can see arguments on either side, can't you? I mean, the key thing there is, really, there is the uncertainty and how things keep changing, you know, and you can't, you know, you plan for one day, and then the next day, things have changed. So yeah, tricky, tricky times, but it looking further down the line, and you know, and product longevity, that's kind of

We've more into the into the long term, you know, what does product longevity mean to you in kind of today's climate around kind of, you know, eventually you'd like to build stuff that lasts. Challenging right now to do that, suppose. But what does it mean to you?

Tylan Tschopp (: 48:53

So I find developing products that last in market for a long time and are successful is probably the most effective way to drive for sustainability within our profession. I could go on this topic quite a bit because there's the beliefs and I'll openly criticize our profession in some ways for, I think it's arrogant for industrial design to think it's our sole responsibility to save the world through sustainability. think that's,

a very narrow view. think it takes collaboration of all the way to raw materials supply chain, every different function. There's a lot of engineering involved in those types of feeds. So we did a line of products called Reviva for Black and Decker. It's a waste plastic recycled housings for power tools, which is really, really rewarding reclaim plastic. It's a product called

Easton Triton Renew. it a but it behaves very differently when you injection mold lots of technical challenges and but the cost is still quite high to use that material. You're getting less of a product for a higher price, which is when it comes to really functional product. Whereas you have these super materials like I'll say Zenoid, I think that that's even dated now. But from a from a polyester standpoint that you could design a product that may last in market for 30 years. I think that is a great

Chris Whyte (: 49:55

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 50:01

Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 50:21

approach, basically designing well and not necessarily as trend-based, but a little bit more classic on the form-based, something a little more timeless. I've personally been blessed that a lot of my products have lasted in the market for a significant amount of time, and I inherited one category that I'm really proud of what came out of it in my last, one of my last things at Sandley Black Necker was knives for DeWalt, so was a category where...

We had developed a number of utility knives in the past that had gone through full development, launched, and then been discontinued within a year or two's time. So all of that resource time.

production is kind of wasted effort and energy and not the best use of natural resources to keep swinging and missing. I think there was like seven or eight that did not make it past that line. And now that business is competing with TTI in Milwaukee and really great.

just phenomenal design work done by the team there too. Charlie and Tim Payne who are on my team just crushed it. Charlie's expanded his career as result of the work done there. To me, I think the designs that were done for that are gonna last in market for 20, 30 years. It's very likely they're just really, really well executed. And to me, that's a really big sustainability win.

longevity. You look back to even, I think my grandmother had a Sunbeam toaster that had like the automatic rise toast and I'm pretty sure that thing still works. So it's outlived my grandparents. So that's true sustainable design and my thought versus the more trend-based quick opportunity kind of thing is hard. But sometimes it's just the design solution wasn't...

Tylan Tschopp (: 52:13

say vetted or wasn't as successful and that is more costly from a sustainability standpoint in my opinion.

Chris Whyte (: 52:19

huge. Yeah, there's not too many products you can point to that have been released over recent years that, you know, fit into the kind of the longevity categories there in terms of, know, stuff that we would pass down to our kids and our grandkids. Whereas, yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 52:36

Like a KitchenAid mixer, that's a good example, right? I mean, it's way overbuilt, lasts forever, hangs down versus something. We're kind of conditioned, I think, and especially in the States, to every year to every three years, we're buying a new toaster oven, toaster, coffee maker, name it. And I'd much rather buy things that hopefully I never have to buy again is my goal. I'd rather not, from consumer standpoint.

Chris Whyte (: 52:42

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 52:52

Hmm.

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 53:02

Yeah.

Absolutely. it's. Yeah, we do live in a throwaway culture, don't we? But also, you know, you have that balance of you mentioned earlier about kind of protecting design. And it's something that one of my previous guests, Jude Pullman has commented on online recently about kind of the proficiency of the prolificity sorry, of, you know, the security screws and the exotic kind of security screws.

make it harder to get access to products. I suppose, protect your design in a certain respect. But on the other side, you want it to be, you know, last long and then be repairable if needs to be. Some of those, you know, those appliances that you talk about, you could just take apart and replace some of the wiring if it worn down or whatever. But we don't get that so much these days with everything glued together. Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 53:58

It's true, it's very true. Some of that I think is cost savings, you know, through the development. Sometimes you have things that you don't want, you know, an average consumer like lithium batteries, you know, you don't want them trying to serve things like that. you need some kind of service infrastructure to actually handle professionally and safely. And I think that's a challenge across the board.

Chris Whyte (: 54:02

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 54:08

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 54:14

Mm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 54:21

It would be fantastic to have something upgradable. We did concepts in the past of doing that even with specific power tools of, you've got a frame and you're upgrading components almost like a model RC car kind of method. But.

Chris Whyte (: 54:28

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 54:33

Hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 54:34

it's really hard to build a business case to sustain some of those because you just, all of your math becomes very different. You're looking at things like, it would maybe make sense for an underwater drill or a piece of welding equipment or something on that that goes on an oil rig, that really serious type of use case scenario, but when you can produce a hammer drill for $300 retail.

Chris Whyte (: 54:51

Hmm.

Chris Whyte (: 54:59

Hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 55:00

It's really hard to make the argument for something that's probably going to cost you five grand. It's cost back.

Chris Whyte (: 55:08

Yeah.

It's it's it's a yeah, it's a difficult, difficult challenge. So one that we probably don't have time to solve on today's podcast is one of those topics that you could just you could just talk and talk for and then another little angle comes in and it's so complicated. But super interesting. Well, we're rapidly approaching the hour mark. So we'll wrap it up very quickly. And I trust people at the end of the show, you know,

what they're most excited about coming up in the next 12 months. So perhaps you could talk on that and then we'll dive into podcasts or book recommendations you might have. But yeah, what are you excited about for the next 12 months?

Tylan Tschopp (: 55:52

Obviously, I'm always excited about our next new product launches and entering new categories, new challenges. I'm also just very optimistic about all the design talent that's out there and the impact that...

designers can have on business. I believe it's been proven mathematically that design led businesses actually earn more. I still mourn the loss of like Johnny Ive at Apple and the CDO position there, I think was a massive mistake. And I'd love to see these assertive design leaders come up, learn the business acumen and become that that horsepower that really drives business. that's something that I'm always excited about. I believe design should take over the world there.

Chris Whyte (: 56:33

Mm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 56:36

Sorry for all the beeping. I swear I'm on do not disturb here, but someone's someone's made their way through But yes

Chris Whyte (: 56:43

That's okay.

Tylan Tschopp (: 56:46

Yeah, just very excited for future product and the future of design. I've seen too much doom and gloom online that the profession is dead and things like that. And I think that is extremely negative and probably intentionally polarizing viewpoint. But it is very competitive and it takes some serious effort, almost like a professional athlete level commitment to really succeed in the profession.

Chris Whyte (: 56:57

Mm-hmm.

Tylan Tschopp (: 57:13

You have to be serious at it. And it is globally competitive, which I think many design competent parts of the world. think that the UK region has continued to be a leader in that space. I would say in the US from an education standpoint, I think it's maybe rescinded a little bit by comparison of Asia and other parts of the world.

Chris Whyte (: 57:17

yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 57:36

That's the reality. It's globally competitive. If you're in one of these massive markets, you come with an extreme advantage of understanding of the culture and the user. And you've got to get after it to take a leadership role in it.

Chris Whyte (: 57:39

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 57:52

Yeah, there's no place for complacency is there it's you got to you got to be competitive. And that's what we make, like I said, a good member of your team, it kind of applies globally, doesn't it? So that's awesome. Well, final final point, any any books or podcasts that you're reading at the moment that you'd like to recommend?

Tylan Tschopp (: 58:14

That's a great question. I can't think of anything off the top of my head to be honest.

Yeah, I wish I had a better answer for you there and I should. So it's just telling on myself, but I don't have a great answer for you. Actually, I lied. Let me go to this one. It's not exactly design related, but we were talking about leadership and I made a note to mention it. So my wife has her doctorate in education. She's in a different world altogether. It's social work by a master's degree training. But Brene Brown talks about leading with vulnerability and empathy. And I think that's another thing that is really powerful that I

Chris Whyte (: 58:30

Okay, that's even better.

Chris Whyte (: 58:48

Okay.

Tylan Tschopp (: 58:50

I know I was enamored with it when I read it. And Nicole, thankfully, highlights these things to me to keep my brain growing. But I think it's something I know I did throughout my career on cross-functional teams is leading with vulnerability. I was not the strongest form developer or designer in that sense. And when we needed something from either engineering or the marketing team, whether it's investment in budget or if it's investment in effort or manufacturing process,

just saying, basically, I'm going to get beat up for this. I really need an edge or some help to get this where it needs to be from my leaders. It was really impactful. It helps. think when people are all focused on helping each other for a shared goal, that's why I'm a big fan of Scrum teams in development. Yeah, I think that's really, really helpful. So if I was going to pick something, would say one of Brene Brown's books on leadership would be.

Chris Whyte (: 59:33

Yeah.

Chris Whyte (: 59:49

I love that. yeah, I think there's a lot to be said on, on kind of vulnerability and asking for help, you know, regardless of whether you're leading or whether you're kind of looking for work or looking for supplies, you know, people generally human nature is to want to be helpful. That's certainly what I found throughout my lifetime or career. But a lot of people are shy for about asking for help, because they think it shows weakness, but actually, you

Most people want to be helpful, they just don't know that you want help. So just ask, know, good things will happen. So what a lovely way to wrap up the podcast. a note there, so Tiana, it's been amazing kind of spending the time with you. I'm looking forward to catch up at CES, but we'll speak in the meantime. But yeah, Tiana Shoppe, thank you so much for being on Y Design.

Tylan Tschopp (: 01:00:24

Yeah.

Tylan Tschopp (: 01:00:44

Likewise, Chris, it's been a pleasure. Very happy to do it. Great conversation. Thank you for making it so easy. was great.

Chris Whyte (: 01:00:51

Thank you for having me.